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A podcast by the Mt. Juliet Church of Christ where we encourage and equip people to interact with the biblical text.You can find more personal growth resources like this one at mtjuliet.org/resources. We exist to glorify God and make disciples by helping people grow in Christ, love one another, and serve others.
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81 | Decoded - Grace
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In this episode, we take a closer look at the meaning of grace in Scripture—its connection to favor, salvation, and gratitude in the relationship between people and God
Welcome to Text Support Podcast of the Minute Dude Turkey Cross where we encourage and equip people to interact with the biblical text. We are your host Tim Martin and Brian Lemasters.
SPEAKER_03This is going to be our final episode on our series we've titled Decoded, where we're looking at different biblical words that maybe we use them in our everyday language, maybe not, but wanting to make sure we understand what these words mean when we look at them in the Bible. Today we're going to be looking at the word grace, but not only is this our final episode of this series, it's also the final episode of this season. So we will go on a summer break here and we'll be back with you this fall. You know, Tim, Blaine, our producer, has advised us on different things as we've been trying to stumble through the podcast world. And one of them is to share some of the fan mail that we get from time to time. So want to give a shout out to our listener from Scottsville, Kentucky. They said about the episode just what I needed to hear. Thank you so much. So to our listener out there, we're glad this was helpful to you and to everybody else that is listening. We appreciate your support. And in the fall, we will continue to look at different topics and ideas throughout scripture and how we can better understand them. All right, Tim.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm sorry we can't say a shout out to we got about a million people. Yeah. It's impossible to say something to them all. Um and uh, you know, some of them are just, you know, you know, just uh so gracious and wonderful, but it's hard to answer the volume. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Once we remove the 20 from my mom, you know, then we get that's right. So all right. Um the word grace, I would say, is a a popular word in Christianity today. Um curious as we go through this whether or not our idea of how we say it today will will capture all the different ways it's used throughout scripture. But let's just start kind of there. What is grace? Or how how should we define grace?
SPEAKER_01You know, it's one of those words I wish that translators would use a little bit of variety in their translation. Uh it's, you know, there there is uh you know. Kind of like the word love. Is that what you're saying? I know people are familiar with that. Yeah, yeah. Love. Faith is another one of those things where it gets really be translated maybe with some variety depending on what you're dealing with. But you know, a lot of the words that I, you know, encountered as studying through this uh of like favor or goodwill or kindness or mercy, uh, really it would be great because that word um uh it can even mean, you know, in in its verbal nature, it mean like to give thanks. Um and so I wish that it was translated more variety because sometimes it just things like grace, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace. And w we miss some of the flavor of it, I guess, or some of the nuance to it. Uh when we when we see that, and of course there's a a concept of grace and favor in the Old Testament and then in the New Testament as well. And I'm gonna tell you, I kind of feel like after studying this word, my scope of grace is narrowed, not expanded, because I I do think we use the word a lot, uh, and not in in wrong ways, but I think um in real liberal ways, meaning it's almost like this broad paintbrush, and we maybe lose the meaning of the word uh and what it means. And there's part of the concept theologically of grace that I completely got my arms around, or have my arms around. There's another of it that I just can't quite get my arms around. But anyway, this is gonna sound like I just wrote down some Old Testament concepts, kind of some New Testament concepts, and this word is not an invention of the of the the New Testament writers. Um of course Hebrew, really the only Hebrew example we have is is as it's written in the Hebrew Bible, but you know, it had meaning to long before Paul and Jesus came along, and so I think it's important for us to think about that.
SPEAKER_03This is gonna surprise you, but when I was looking at a couple of different of the dictionaries, I was looking at some of the history behind where the idea of grace came from. So I'll share this, see if you agree with it or disagree with uh this writer. But they talked about how the usage, not necessarily in the New Testament, are we talking about the Bible as a whole or what how the words used secularly in other ways throughout time or whatever. Oh, okay, okay. Like, yeah, so uh not necessarily how it's defined in the Bible, but kind of the background of some of the words. But, anyways, an idea with it was that it would be referred to something like delightful or beautiful in a person or an act with which brought pleasure to others. Okay, yeah. All right, not necessarily where my mind goes of how I use it today, but anyways, from that came the idea of a favor or a gift that brought pleasure to another person. And then I thought this was interesting because it always confused me of how we use this today, but it also then developed from the person receiving it that it came to mean thanks or thankfulness, which makes more sense why people say, Hey, let's say grace, like when they're saying prayer. That always confused me because I I didn't really that it didn't make sense to me why they what did you do? Did you just go grace? Yeah. Like everybody just supposed to say it all. I mean, I knew the concept, they meant prayer, but I didn't understand why that was being used. But yeah, there is some history there, there. Um and then it seems like then it was more came to the sense of a favor being done freely or without claim or expectation of something in return. So those were some of the things I stumbled upon. Not necessarily how it's used in scripture in all the instances, but some of the background. Would you agree with some of those thoughts?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I agree with all those thoughts. I mean, the the kindness, uh I was looking at kind of how the Greek word, you know, you mentioned that, let's say, grace and giving of thanks. You think about, you know, originally, you know, early Christianity, we see um when talking about the Lord's Supper, we often see the verb Eucharisteo uh used, meaning to give thanks. Well, you charis, charis is the Greek word for grace, or that we translate grace, uh, but it also means thanks. And so the the core of that word, the the base of that entire word is this concept of grace and thanks. And so I think it's perfectly fine to put it in that we think about I do I did see some definitions that go right along with what you were saying, is that uh in Greek literature and in New Testament literature, sometimes it's a winning quality or an attractiveness that invites a favorable reaction. Uh, you know, and that would be more like graciousness, like you're a gracious person. Well, we might say it today, she she conducted herself with such grace, meaning that she was with prestige uh and with honor and with dignity uh that somebody conducts themselves.
SPEAKER_03I don't know why you associated that with a woman. Like I when I think of you, how you walk through the halls at the office, I'm like, oh man, Tim's just so graceful.
SPEAKER_01I know. You've seen her dance. You've obviously seen me oh, I can say dance. I said dance in a Church of Christ podcast. How sinful of me. Uh, yeah, that's right. We're gonna get in trouble uh using curse words like that. But uh uh being uh grace and and and favor and goodwill, care, uh having a good disposition to some. I think what we see in the Old Testament more often than not is that some individual, we see that Hebrew word, I think it's hen. I always don't know how to pronounce that uh rough breathing present uh sound in Hebrew, but uh it's usually translated favor in most English Bibles. Uh and it's usually I won the favor of God, or he found favor in the sight of Pharaoh, some sort of uh thing where they get like this moral quality of kindness shown towards them.
SPEAKER_03One example I came across was Noah in Genesis. He found favor in the favor there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so you find something, and the the way it it's often, you know, uh demonstrating some goodwill towards that person uh and that it's a a concept of goodness, like God has shown favor, for example, to humans by even just being our creator, uh, and all the blessings of life are all due to God's goodwill or grace. I've really found that goodwill and favor are two really great English ways uh of explaining that, and so everything, all the blessings we get from God are something that are due to his grace. And then we have specific things that we talk about in the New Testament uh that we'll talk about when we get to that.
SPEAKER_03But um Yeah, and I don't know if I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I don't know if this is just me, but I feel like the way I hear that word used is this idea of we're saved by grace, and it's a word that's just attached a lot of times to salvation. But it seems like throughout scripture that it's not always tied to that idea of salvation. Um that there's other ways that you can receive favor in things that's not just talking about having your sins washed away.
SPEAKER_01Uh I would say, I mean, if you think about God's kindness and his generosity, yes, there can be those that benefit from that. It's not necessarily the the work of the salvific work of Jesus Christ on the cross, which is an act of God's kindness and his goodwill uh and his favor towards us. And and that part of it I can understand um much easier than I can kind of some of the broader ways that it it people use it um maybe even beyond what is really clearly clearly laid out in scripture.
SPEAKER_03Do you have an example of that? Like how do you feel like it's misused today?
SPEAKER_01Well, sometimes I feel like grace, you know, w we might say it in English context to say like, well, he g uh maybe give me a little grace here, meaning like give me a little uh leniency here, or maybe give me a little bit of a break here, like if a police officer was to pull you over and you were speeding and you're guilty of it.
SPEAKER_03Like another word just for mercy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just another word for mercy, and then I think it kind of is if evolved is the right word, but I think often it's used in the context of God's grace is gonna overlook my mistakes. You know, yeah after becoming a Christian, that I think we have to be careful. I I had a really good uh quote that I wrote out, and I'm not gonna quote it directly, but Steve Westerholm in the New International Dictionary of the Bible said that grace is not meant to legitimize or excuse further indulgence in sin, that grace prevails among those who have died to sin and now live for God, to continue sinning would be a revert to slavery under sin. I think sometimes today that there's an impression given of grace is that God knows I'm a sinner, he knows I'm going to make mistakes, and he's gonna be willing to overlook my bad habits and my hang-ups and the things that I do when I continually sin. And I'm not so sure that I understand that word in that way in Scripture. I understand that God can forgive us of our sins and we confess sins when we're walking in the light. Meaning what what Westerholm was saying there is we're conducting our life with God and we make mistakes from time to time. But if we continue to sin the same sin over and over again, I'm not entirely sure that I see that concept contained within the st a study of grace in the New Testament. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean it's a very fine line because then how much more can how much can I sin with and get away with it? Yeah. I really prefer to think about the concept of grace is in God's sending of Jesus Christ to act out a plan to provide reconciliation and salvation, and that's God's favor towards us, and it's his goodwill, and it's all based in that. I know we say a free gift of God, this kind of thing. But ultimately it's just him being merciful and loving, and su that's how he shows his goodwill to us uh and doing it. And that I that part of grace, I can understand that biblical concept. I struggle with the other one.
SPEAKER_03Your quote there reminded me, it almost sounded like a message version of Romans 6, uh, one and two, like when it says, What shall we say? This is ESB. Are we continu are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means, how can we who died to sin still live in it? Um seems to capture that idea a lot. You know, like it's grace is not a free pass there to do what you want.
SPEAKER_01And I don't want to swing the pendulum back to what I know how things used to be in the church, where every time somebody committed a sin or made a mistake or or or had a stray thought that they've fallen out of that they're no longer saved, you know, and and worry, live in that kind of fear that was uh indoctrinated in them. I don't want to say that I'm against it. I just have a hard time figuring out how to really I would have a hard time explaining that to someone if they said, I want you to explain that to me from scripture. I was planning on the side. That may be just ignorance on my part. I'm gonna say it didn't exist. I just can't get my I haven't ever really figured that out.
SPEAKER_03I want to read you a passage from Titus II, and I think it it goes along with the train of thought right here. So I'm gonna skip ahead to it in my notes here. But it says, For the grace of God has appeared, bring in salvation for all people. Verse 12, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, and it's gonna continue waiting for Jesus and stuff like that. My question that I had for you is kind of like, how does this concept of grace, which in this passage seems to be grace is referring to Jesus coming to save us from our sins, you know, and what you were talking about there, but this idea that helps train us for um righteousness or to live good lives. Like, how is that how is the concept of grace actually helpful for that? Does that make sense of what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, I'm trying to get my arms around kind of the entire concept. Yeah, if now it it makes that passage, what you said, challenging if you narrow down the grace of God appearing as only the work of Jesus on the cross versus what if it's referring to I'm doing this off the cuff. What if it's referring to the overall revelation of the mystery? Meaning that not only just Jesus' the the Christ event on the cross or the the dying on the cross, but everything that comes with that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, connected to the bringing salvation. The unveiling of that.
SPEAKER_01And I think about in Titus, you know, where it talks about a remodeling of the you know, the mind and you know, you you've been kind of recreated type thing or remodeled, uh, really, I think at the beginning of this chapter of memory serves, but uh yeah, I think that it certainly it brings salvation, and we think about what we view as the entire revelation of the mystery also includes things that would train us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions and live self-controlled, upright, godly lives in the present age. And I I really think about that. That's a very Gentile message, if you think about it, because I don't know. I'm not saying there were no Jews that were behaving ungodly, but I'm saying as a whole, they were pretty godly people, you know, and they weren't caught up in worldly passions. So we think about the instruction that they were given in order to do that. I don't wonder if we don't also encapsulate the total instruction.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the reason I think maybe way off base of that. No, yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's what struck me. And I think at the heart of why I'm bringing this up is your comment of like you don't want people to feel overwhelmed by guilt, but also compelled to live godly lives. And I feel like that's what I really see in this passage is this idea of like, hey, you've been redeemed, you've been saved, like, not just so that you can go back to your own way of living, but for this purpose to live a godly life, to get rid of that like old lifestyle and stuff. So I agree with you. I think it's clear from scripture we can't abuse the concept of grace.
SPEAKER_01It's not license or just do whatever you want to do. Now that you've got you get out of jail free card stamped. Um so yeah, I I think that it's the like a this is a great place where it would be for a different word than than than grace to be used. Um and so, you know, this is a very practical application of God's goodwill was everything that he's given to us. You think about it, think about it this way. Isn't it part that God has shown favor to us by even giving us revealed written scripture? That that's not something that exists in other religions of the time, that he has gifted human beings uh a a relatively plain explanation of what he wants us to do and how he wants us to behave. And you know, we only know about the mystery of the gospel because we have the gospel written down.
SPEAKER_03And so I saw some people, more than one source title that like common grace, like things God has done that all people have access to that's outside of salvation.
SPEAKER_02But yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um anyways, not that other people have to use that title, but I saw multiple people reference that of like there's multiple blessings that God has given us. That makes sense. Um all right, so one thing I thought was interesting, Tim. I wonder if you came across this. When I was looking at the usage of grace in the New Testament, uh it it appears from what I could tell that it's absent in Matthew and Mark, mentioned maybe eight times in Luke, but four of those is that I that idea of like thanks, three more the idea of like the Old Testament, like favor, and then one describing Jesus' words is like words of grace. We see it four times in John, but it's all in that first chapter. So if you don't mind, why don't we jump there real quick and in this passage in verse 14 it's a pretty popular verse it says, And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. So when we come across a description like that of Jesus, how how should we understand that word grace?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think about we're describing Jesus, he was full of truth. Yeah, and that's my question.
SPEAKER_03Like, do we think favor, do we think a gift? Like what what other words can we put in the first thing?
SPEAKER_01I think that we're describing that the Sun is full of grace and truth, right? Mm-hmm. I'm I'm guessing that we're thinking about that the Son is full of grace and truth. And so then I think about okay, what was Jesus full of? Full of compassion, full of mercy, full of goodwill, and all kinds of truth. You know, in his teaching. And so in his behavior and in his teaching, I would describe those as gracious and truthful. Um So there's a good example of of of something where a different word other than grace would be really, really good to use. It's just almost like his translators are enslaved to translate Keris as grace. Like it can't be translated in another way. And I wish that was not true. But that that's a guess what what you're saying out there.
SPEAKER_03Uh the other thing that I noticed was that it seemed like Paul uses the word a lot in proportion to like other writers. Is there any reason for that?
SPEAKER_01You know what? That's interesting to think about. I did write down some statistics, as you mentioned, it's not mentioned in Matthew and Mark, it's only four times in the prologue of John. Uh and 25 times in Luke and Acts, uh, and like a hundred times in the Pauline corpus. However, it's first Peter that uses it with the most frequency. I too. He wrote that down ten in that very little uh passage. So really, if you wanted to study it, uh but uh the the word group as a whole, Charis and Charismata, other uh words are are used uh most often in uh Paul and Luke uh in their writings. And so yeah, it's interesting. I think if you're gonna study grace, you really have to do a good study of of what Peter was thinking uh when he he was looking at it and going through that. And so uh but Paul is is as far as a widespread teaching, we don't have any idea who Paul Peter was writing to, but when we think about a widespread teaching and a core element of their theology, one has to say it was a core element of Paul's theology and teaching, as much as he used it. Especially in relation to um versus works, you know, versus sometimes they would think earning our salvation. I don't think that's really the best way to think about what Paul was addressing, more so than they at least I think he was addressing Jews of thinking that righteousness and justification that we talked about in another previous episode are the avenues to access to God, or are an avenue or an access to God where actually it's the gift of Christ. By God's goodwill and favor that allow access to God and not these works. And so, you know, he uses the word a lot, Paul uses a lot, you know, like in his salutations, you know, you know, by the grace. You know, I'm an apostle by the grace of God. Well, if we said that, what does that mean? Well, it means I've been favored by God, just like Noah maybe was favored by God. I've been favored by God to do something very important. This is something that's been bestowed on me by God's pure goodwill and graciousness. I'm not here of my own accord. I'm not here because of my own accolades. I don't think it's sometimes I think we read grace like it's permission in that context. It's really not. To me, it's like an endorsement of God. Yeah, and I just privileges is a better way to say it.
SPEAKER_03I don't feel like I hear that in the way that we use that word today. Like it's not but maybe I'm off. Maybe I'm just reading into things that we've got to do. That word it's like faith.
SPEAKER_01It's just so pregnant with all kinds of different meanings that have been introduced to it. But like I said, I can boil it down in the New Testament to one thing, it's clear that it's it's somewhere where God has shown towards humankind some sort of favor and goodness and mercy and generosity. And to me, that's grace.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Let me ask you this question. We've talked about it briefly a little bit early in this episode, and I think in a recent episode as well, but I just think it's so important and something that people struggle with. When we think about grace and those that have been those that are Christians, you know, that are now waiting for the return of Jesus. What's like a healthy attitude or perspective between I have the grace of God and I have to be perfect? Like how how you got any other advice for people like that's something that I don't know.
SPEAKER_01You know, what do you see that across all ages? No, I I do. I I do. It's like, you know, perfect blameless. Let me use the word blameless. We use like a Paul word. You know, Paul would say he was blameless according to the law. To me, that means no one could accuse him of breaking the law. And I say law, I mean Torah. Uh and so that doesn't mean he's been perfect. That just means he hasn't disobediened he cannot be accused of of disobeying God's law. Do we live lives where we can't be accused of that? You know, it's hard because versus I think the bulk of the regulations in Torah, we also now have to worry about mental sin, you know, lust and jealousy and envy and anger that may or may never, may not ever manifest themselves in any physical action whatsoever. Uh, you know, covetousness is about the only thing we can hang in the Torah on that, but I think it's because it would lead to you taking something of your neighbor. Um it's a it's a tough concept, and I think it it's right for Christians to struggle with, and it's hard to answer is what's God's toleration level with my disobedience? Does he are we able to say that he's able to look at our hearts and know that, hey, Tim and Brian, you know, Brian more so than Tim, are just making mistakes. Um, and you know, I I know that the bulk of their life, 99% of their life is tied up in serving me and doing right, but they struggle with this sin. Uh, and it it seems to come back and haunt them often, whether it's anger, whether it's lust, whether it's whatever it winds up being. I do think there's a uh God has a a range of tolerance on the if he knows your heart and he knows you're not just like, I don't, I know this is wrong, and I just don't really I don't really care, and I'm entitled to sin. That's different than I'm trying to do the best I can and I know I slip up from time to time and I make mistakes. I hope God's patient and gracious with me. To me, it's what do you walk in? You walk in the dark, you walk in the light. And to me, walking in the light means for the most part, now I'm not talking about 51%, I'm talking about nearly all the time you are doing things that are pleasing to God, and just it it's something that you make mistakes. But I don't think it we want to become complacent in that fact, meaning like, well, you know what? I'm just gonna give up trying to correct this in my life, and I'm just gonna rely on the grace of God. I don't know about that. I I struggle that that's acceptable or not. But there there it's a lot of it's a lot of conversation to have to think about where is God's tolerance level in our mistake making. Yeah, and I don't know if I'll say that. Somebody knows an answer to that. I don't know the answer to that.
SPEAKER_03I don't know if I'll say this clearly. Like when you say that answer there at the end, of that attitude somebody says, Well, I'll just leave it in the grace of God. It seems to miss the heart of what's being communicated about grace. And it's this thankfulness, this even when you go back to how it's seen in the Old Testament, an inferior person going to somebody that's superior, high ranking, and and asking for their favor or their blessing, it comes with humility and gratitude and the attitude of like almost just giving up doesn't seem to have those two things at the heart of it. And I think to me that I find comfort that if I can be somebody that values God's favor and values his grace upon me, and I have appreciation for that, I feel like my spirit's in a good place, like even through some struggles.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. And I think maintaining humility is beneficial. One of the things that I came across uh when I was looking uh like in Jewish literature, this this word charis is pretty rare, like in the Qumran text, uh, but uh it does uh occur in the apocryphal writing some, and it often has the context of the stronger coming to the aid of the weaker uh and it making the weaker party more acceptable to somebody else. So for example, let's just say I was a king and you were some peasant, me showing you favor, and because you have the favor of the king, it raises your status in the eyes of somebody else. They used to look at you a certain way, but because you have the favor of the king, I'm gonna treat you a little bit differently. Uh, you know, that probably goes on all the time, like you know, in politics or something. Uh well, you know, you know, the the king likes him, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna treat him differently because the king likes him because it benefits me. And so um I thought that was very interesting to think about uh the showing favor. We think about really you mentioned Noah, you know, and that he found favor in God's eyes, and you know that that elevates Noah in our eyes, right? We look at Noah as being righteous because God looked at Noah being as being righteous and really treating him very special, affording him something he didn't afford to the rest of humanity and being saved from the flood. That really, if you think about it, raises Noah's status in our eyes to almost like this like bulletproof guy, you know. Uh and so I thought that was interesting to think through. And um I I'm trying to think about how you would apply that concept to Christians. Um but you know, it only would do so if if you saw me as legitimate king. If I showed favor to somebody and you respected me, then you would respect them. But if you didn't respect me or recognize me. So for Gentiles, when they look at somebody becoming a Christian, it was probably a shameful act, not an honorable act, because they didn't acknowledge that the person or being they were receiving grace from was legitimate. You'd be like, but they're being shown grace by God. I'd be like I don't believe in your God. Yeah. But if they were shown favor by Zeus, uh, you know, then I'd be like, oh I I'd recognize that. And um so they would have to someone would have to believe in the power power in order to be recognized. And so I could see why there would be a struggle um for Gentiles to recognize anything special about Christians, uh, or or actually quite the contrary. So anyway, that was a long diatrap. I don't even remember what I was talking about.
SPEAKER_03No, no, that was good.
SPEAKER_01Um one of the things I wrote down was um that in the New Testament, most often, and I wish I remember which resource I got this from, that grace is the demonstration of God's goodwill towards humankind in Jesus Christ and its beneficial effects on or for human beings. To me, that sums up what I can understand about the New Testament by grace. I have a hard time trying to figure out that other aspect we talked about. About is grace is Karas the best way to describe God's patience in our mistake making. I'm not I don't I don't know how I would teach somebody that. I'm sure there's I'm sure there's answers to that, but I don't know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So what's Tim, as we wrap up here for this season, what's kind of a closing thought or the one thing when people think about grace, you hope they have this in their mind now moving forward.
SPEAKER_01I hope they have an appreciation that the creator of the universe, the omniscient, omnipower, omnipotent, all-powerful God, has shown them a great kindness in sending Jesus Christ to die for our sins on the cross, something we can't earn, something we can't merit, and that he has provided that gift knowing we can't pay it back, but with expectations that we do obey the covenant that we enter into, the stipulations that we do what is right inside of God. Uh, and that to me is the major thing. That to me is what Paul is trying to get across to people. And I think the New Testament. And we need to be humble enough to recognize that God has done something very, very generous for us in forgiving our sins, especially something we can't earn uh and we can't reciprocate.
SPEAKER_03Great thoughts in the season. To our fellow students of Scripture, thank you for joining us for tech support.
SPEAKER_00We hope you will join us in the fall. This is a podcast of the Mount Juliet Church of Christ. You can find more personal growth resources like this one at mountjuliat.org slash resources. The Mount Juliet Church of Christ exists to glorify God and make disciples by helping people grow in Christ, love one another, and serve others.
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